Different issue but a relative works in an NHS psychiatry unit that diagnoses ADHD. There is now a three year waiting list simply because the system is clogged up with people who have been diagnosed by non NHS therapists, who are not using the official diagnostic guidelines. Hence people with genuine ADHD symptoms can’t get NHS appointments so go to dodgy therapists. A vicious circle that is very profitable for some.
And the person in that video has 4 “neurodivergent” children who cannot decide what sex they are but seem to have terribly non boring careers in show business.
I have relative who’s been diagnosed with ADHD. He’s 13 and a great kid. He had struggled at school for years. Had fallen so far behind his peers and the last thing his parents (my niece) wanted was to put him on meds but it has changed his life. He’s doing so much better. ADHD diagnosis is so misunderstood. He had 18 months to 2 years of tests before he was diagnosed. It makes me so bloody angry.
My eldest son is 21 and struggles and meets the criteria for adhd and/or autism and did from a very young age but as parents we didn’t want to put a label on him and he’s bright and is currently coping with University. Hes been a computer nerd since he was three. All this talk of fixations…he’s studying computer science now. It’s been his thing forever. :)
Let’s just say that I’m surrounded by people with developmental and learning disorders and have spent about 15 years involved with SEND depts and psychologists… if they are struggling, it’s absolutely vital for kids to get a diagnosis (they can’t manage without one)… This is why self-indulgent adults who have more or less breezed through school, exams and uni and only discover they “have” ADHD as a 50-something irk me something fierce. They have no idea what “struggle” is…
I’m so glad your son has found his niche! Thank goodness for computers! 😄 (Though before them it was probably radios and tvs and before that, steam engines… 😉)
He’s actually got to the stage of pulling things apart and actually putting them back together again! He built his own pc at 12. I’m lost when he’s not here and the internet is down 😁
I haven't come across this but I can well believe it. It reminds me of tattoos: you don't suddenly acquire experience or insight with them either. I may be autistic or OCD but I am not bothered to have it diagnosed or even to mention it normally; why do these people think they have become interesting or normal people dull?
It’s like people who think that if they smoke loads of weed they’ll be able to play guitar like Hendrix! 😄 If your life isn’t falling apart, there’s no need for a diagnosis. Also, a diagnosis isn’t the end, it should be the start of a process that helps you learn how to cope with things better. Too often a (self-)diagnosis seems to be all there is.
Yes! When we have a diagnosis for a physical thing, we expect it's going to be the start of a course of treatment or management.
"Neurodivergent" as a self-diagnosis, or diagnosis by non-expert opinion, is like seeing you have a mole or wart in the mirror. A skin specialist might take a biopsy and recommend removal. A beautician (or someone wearing too much makeup on the ground floor of Boots or a department store) might suggest you see a doctor (if you're lucky), but might instead put makeup on it to highlight it and suggest you make a feature of it and call it a "beauty spot".
Loved this post - I had to work with a woman last year for about 6 months who decided part way through that she was "neurospicy" and therefore every mistake she made in the new skills we were both learning we not in any way to be learned from and changed (kind of like evolution) but instead were shiny badges to be polished and cherished. Unsurprisingly, the skills she was learning stopped improving at about the same time as she decided her bugs were in fact features.
Fortunately, my optic nerves stopped my eyes from rolling completely around in their sockets, or they would still be spinning now.
She's not the only one - neurotypical just means "not diagnosed with any kind of disorder" but has been read as "boring or bland" and often "boring and bland white, straight, middle-aged and male".
You have expressed my frustrations with this whole issue way more eloquently than I could have, so thank you!
This is all so true! I have seen these people and they are very annoying. My feeling is that this is the new vegan.
It’s also incredibly annoying for people who do actually have these conditions, as now they get tarred with the same brush as these pretenders and are faced with eye rolling about any legit issues they may have.
This leads to a lot of ignorance about what certain conditions are actually like. Kind of like how everyone started saying they were gluten intolerant when they just actually wanted to avoid carbs but not get judged for it. And then people started to think coeliacs were just trying to be fashionable.
My fav is people self diagnosing as autistic because they ‘feel awkward around other people’. Welcome to being a human, we all feel like this!
I think many of the issues which people argue about in the cultural / identity space is caused by this kind of bandwagon-jumping.
Even the trans “issue” is muddied by it; you’ve got a whole spectrum of people, from “old-fashioned” transsexuals that have or intend to fully transition (the “man trapped in a woman’s body” & vice versa); to kids confused by modern consumer capitalism’s insistence that boys play with guns and girls with dolls who realise they don’t fit the stereotype for their assigned gender, but don’t quite know what they do fit who have been drawn into the debate; to transvestite men & women who’s kink is to be treated publicly as women or men or something in between; and any number of other variations. Too often, the most vocal proponents of ‘trans rights’ aren’t actually “transsexual” but are merely transvestites, and the most vocal critics assume that transvestites represent the whole movement. All of these are rolled together into the same “trans” category (in the name of being one’s “true authentic self”) and are either championed or villified depending on who’s talking.
Right. And one of the issues in the 'neurodiverse' world is that because of things like standardised testing and league tables etc etc, more kids are getting diagnoses for things that 30 years ago wouldn't have been an issue, but if it means extra time or being able to use a laptop in an exam, then let's get that diagnosis. So loads of kids are being 'labelled' when, really, they're fine... BUT (I've just debated with myself about saying this, but... ok, let's do it) THE PARENTS seem to think that their kid is delicate/fragile/special/requiring loads of special treatment because of these labels that they've only got because the kid needs to get good marks on exams in order to have a good chance at life. Their kid is fine! Their kid will be fine... OBVIOUSLY there are a small number of kids who do have more serious developmental or learning disorders who sometimes need meds or interventions of some sort and who might find their whole journey in life extra tricky, but most of these labelled kids just need some extra one on one time in learning support and to be introduced to new 'coping' techniques... They are 'normal', it's just the educational situation we have right now doesn't provide them with the flexibility they need... (And I say this from first hand experience btw)
Indeed - And more disadvantaged parents (for example, those whose first language isn't English, those with addiction problems or mental health issues of their own, those nursing sick relatives themselves because NHS cuts, etc) cannot access those sorts of services, or just don't know how.
The results are seen by the rising numbers of genuinely damaged kids that are overwhelming special needs education (I write as the husband of a special needs teacher) - the kinds of schools that the middle class parents who just want extra support for their little ones wouldn't dream of accepting a place at.
Budget cuts are the main problem, of course, but an aggravating factor is that special needs provision in mainstream education is often monopolised by the kids of parents with the sharpest elbows, not those with the greatest need.
Most of this is great - thank you - but I do rather think that your footnote should have been in the main text. Speaking as someone who's spent a lot of her adult life coping pretty effectively with a lot of tough stuff (and yes, doing so with the help of the privilege of a comfortable middle-class childhood that gave me a lot of the tools I needed to do so): the last two years have visited a lot of deeply traumatic experiences on me which I really did have no choice about feeling miserable about, not least because literally none of my usual coping strategies were available to me. Even when things are beginning to get better, I find myself in a place where I can intellectually see and acknowledge the improvements, but the *feelings* are lagging waaaaaaaaay behind, and they're powerful, and that's difficult. I do think that this pendulum-swing against pathologising normal responses to the difficulties of everyday life - which is necessary and reasonable - does sometime risk swinging too far. Please let's not make the genuinely-struggling feel that they 'should' be doing better as we try to point out a different route to those who could be fine.
I put it in a footnote because I was thinking of responses when dealing with PTSD that kind of happen without even having a conscious thought about it - whether that is having flashbacks or physical things like having startle response when touched. And surely if something bad happens to you it is NORMAL to struggle to deal with it? Whatever the traumatic experience there will be feelings of sadness and guilt and anger and hopelessness. That is just a normal, human response... But if someone forms their entire identity around 'the bad thing that happened to me', how can they get better? If years ago by and they keep asking 'Why did that happen to me?' and feeling awful about it... then really they should be reframing their thinking. The past CANNOT be changed. It just can't. There's no point in feeling miserable about it (past the entirely normal recovery period, that is). THAT is the choice I'm talking about...
And I'll point out that 'the entirely normal recovery period' varies from person to person and what they are dealing with. Someone whose 'gorgeous and amazing' boyfriend left them after being together for 2 years right after university really should not be feeling depressed about it 2 years on. Someone who was a passenger in a car crash where people in the vehicle died will need a lot more time. Someone who earns £100,000 a year, but thinks they really should be earning £1,000,000 and is miserable about that needs to get the fuck over themselves today.
Someone else posted a link to this Twitter thread. It seems that psychologists are interested in this whole area, too: "Are mental health awareness efforts contributing to the increase in reported mental health problems?" https://twitter.com/lfoulkesy/status/1625069021350486018
I was diagnosed with ADHD at age 54. I was genuinely excited to have a way forward, and told people so. That stopped pretty quick when I realised I was sounding like One Of Those People. I now absolutely stfu about diagnoses and just do my lifestyle and meds.
I started with my GP ‘I know how this probably sounds but I've been online…’ but she did refer me to a psychiatrist. Best outcome is distinguishing those things that are ADHD manageable from the rest of life's mess that I just have to get onto like everyone else.
Would I have wanted a teenage diagnosis? No, it's taken the maturity of knowing who I am to see symptoms, and be carefully mucking around with a developing brain. Diagnosed 10 years earlier would’ve been handy tho.
This post speaks to me in so many ways. I have been so frustrated at being told that supposedly neurodivergent, but actually incredibly functioning people suffer from things that I consider to be the Human Condition.
Different issue but a relative works in an NHS psychiatry unit that diagnoses ADHD. There is now a three year waiting list simply because the system is clogged up with people who have been diagnosed by non NHS therapists, who are not using the official diagnostic guidelines. Hence people with genuine ADHD symptoms can’t get NHS appointments so go to dodgy therapists. A vicious circle that is very profitable for some.
I’ve heard about this. It’s such a shitshow… it makes me so angry…
And the person in that video has 4 “neurodivergent” children who cannot decide what sex they are but seem to have terribly non boring careers in show business.
The new Indigo Children https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children
I have relative who’s been diagnosed with ADHD. He’s 13 and a great kid. He had struggled at school for years. Had fallen so far behind his peers and the last thing his parents (my niece) wanted was to put him on meds but it has changed his life. He’s doing so much better. ADHD diagnosis is so misunderstood. He had 18 months to 2 years of tests before he was diagnosed. It makes me so bloody angry.
My eldest son is 21 and struggles and meets the criteria for adhd and/or autism and did from a very young age but as parents we didn’t want to put a label on him and he’s bright and is currently coping with University. Hes been a computer nerd since he was three. All this talk of fixations…he’s studying computer science now. It’s been his thing forever. :)
Let’s just say that I’m surrounded by people with developmental and learning disorders and have spent about 15 years involved with SEND depts and psychologists… if they are struggling, it’s absolutely vital for kids to get a diagnosis (they can’t manage without one)… This is why self-indulgent adults who have more or less breezed through school, exams and uni and only discover they “have” ADHD as a 50-something irk me something fierce. They have no idea what “struggle” is…
I’m so glad your son has found his niche! Thank goodness for computers! 😄 (Though before them it was probably radios and tvs and before that, steam engines… 😉)
He’s actually got to the stage of pulling things apart and actually putting them back together again! He built his own pc at 12. I’m lost when he’s not here and the internet is down 😁
I haven't come across this but I can well believe it. It reminds me of tattoos: you don't suddenly acquire experience or insight with them either. I may be autistic or OCD but I am not bothered to have it diagnosed or even to mention it normally; why do these people think they have become interesting or normal people dull?
It’s like people who think that if they smoke loads of weed they’ll be able to play guitar like Hendrix! 😄 If your life isn’t falling apart, there’s no need for a diagnosis. Also, a diagnosis isn’t the end, it should be the start of a process that helps you learn how to cope with things better. Too often a (self-)diagnosis seems to be all there is.
Yes! When we have a diagnosis for a physical thing, we expect it's going to be the start of a course of treatment or management.
"Neurodivergent" as a self-diagnosis, or diagnosis by non-expert opinion, is like seeing you have a mole or wart in the mirror. A skin specialist might take a biopsy and recommend removal. A beautician (or someone wearing too much makeup on the ground floor of Boots or a department store) might suggest you see a doctor (if you're lucky), but might instead put makeup on it to highlight it and suggest you make a feature of it and call it a "beauty spot".
Loved this post - I had to work with a woman last year for about 6 months who decided part way through that she was "neurospicy" and therefore every mistake she made in the new skills we were both learning we not in any way to be learned from and changed (kind of like evolution) but instead were shiny badges to be polished and cherished. Unsurprisingly, the skills she was learning stopped improving at about the same time as she decided her bugs were in fact features.
Fortunately, my optic nerves stopped my eyes from rolling completely around in their sockets, or they would still be spinning now.
She's not the only one - neurotypical just means "not diagnosed with any kind of disorder" but has been read as "boring or bland" and often "boring and bland white, straight, middle-aged and male".
You have expressed my frustrations with this whole issue way more eloquently than I could have, so thank you!
This is all so true! I have seen these people and they are very annoying. My feeling is that this is the new vegan.
It’s also incredibly annoying for people who do actually have these conditions, as now they get tarred with the same brush as these pretenders and are faced with eye rolling about any legit issues they may have.
This leads to a lot of ignorance about what certain conditions are actually like. Kind of like how everyone started saying they were gluten intolerant when they just actually wanted to avoid carbs but not get judged for it. And then people started to think coeliacs were just trying to be fashionable.
My fav is people self diagnosing as autistic because they ‘feel awkward around other people’. Welcome to being a human, we all feel like this!
I think many of the issues which people argue about in the cultural / identity space is caused by this kind of bandwagon-jumping.
Even the trans “issue” is muddied by it; you’ve got a whole spectrum of people, from “old-fashioned” transsexuals that have or intend to fully transition (the “man trapped in a woman’s body” & vice versa); to kids confused by modern consumer capitalism’s insistence that boys play with guns and girls with dolls who realise they don’t fit the stereotype for their assigned gender, but don’t quite know what they do fit who have been drawn into the debate; to transvestite men & women who’s kink is to be treated publicly as women or men or something in between; and any number of other variations. Too often, the most vocal proponents of ‘trans rights’ aren’t actually “transsexual” but are merely transvestites, and the most vocal critics assume that transvestites represent the whole movement. All of these are rolled together into the same “trans” category (in the name of being one’s “true authentic self”) and are either championed or villified depending on who’s talking.
Right. And one of the issues in the 'neurodiverse' world is that because of things like standardised testing and league tables etc etc, more kids are getting diagnoses for things that 30 years ago wouldn't have been an issue, but if it means extra time or being able to use a laptop in an exam, then let's get that diagnosis. So loads of kids are being 'labelled' when, really, they're fine... BUT (I've just debated with myself about saying this, but... ok, let's do it) THE PARENTS seem to think that their kid is delicate/fragile/special/requiring loads of special treatment because of these labels that they've only got because the kid needs to get good marks on exams in order to have a good chance at life. Their kid is fine! Their kid will be fine... OBVIOUSLY there are a small number of kids who do have more serious developmental or learning disorders who sometimes need meds or interventions of some sort and who might find their whole journey in life extra tricky, but most of these labelled kids just need some extra one on one time in learning support and to be introduced to new 'coping' techniques... They are 'normal', it's just the educational situation we have right now doesn't provide them with the flexibility they need... (And I say this from first hand experience btw)
Indeed - And more disadvantaged parents (for example, those whose first language isn't English, those with addiction problems or mental health issues of their own, those nursing sick relatives themselves because NHS cuts, etc) cannot access those sorts of services, or just don't know how.
The results are seen by the rising numbers of genuinely damaged kids that are overwhelming special needs education (I write as the husband of a special needs teacher) - the kinds of schools that the middle class parents who just want extra support for their little ones wouldn't dream of accepting a place at.
Budget cuts are the main problem, of course, but an aggravating factor is that special needs provision in mainstream education is often monopolised by the kids of parents with the sharpest elbows, not those with the greatest need.
🙏🙏🙏
Narcissistic Personality Disorder
is possible cause of some people’s problems .
I think in the case of the balloon
It is not the ballon that is the cause of happiness it is the mind of love which is a peaceful mind.
When we grasp at the ballon we forget
the mind of love .
If we just stay moment by moment with
mind of love .
Then we are happy regardless of what the balloon does.
Why is it that I scan the soothing blue/green chart and feel that every adult heterosexual male in meetings in the tech industry had late onset ADHD.
Most of this is great - thank you - but I do rather think that your footnote should have been in the main text. Speaking as someone who's spent a lot of her adult life coping pretty effectively with a lot of tough stuff (and yes, doing so with the help of the privilege of a comfortable middle-class childhood that gave me a lot of the tools I needed to do so): the last two years have visited a lot of deeply traumatic experiences on me which I really did have no choice about feeling miserable about, not least because literally none of my usual coping strategies were available to me. Even when things are beginning to get better, I find myself in a place where I can intellectually see and acknowledge the improvements, but the *feelings* are lagging waaaaaaaaay behind, and they're powerful, and that's difficult. I do think that this pendulum-swing against pathologising normal responses to the difficulties of everyday life - which is necessary and reasonable - does sometime risk swinging too far. Please let's not make the genuinely-struggling feel that they 'should' be doing better as we try to point out a different route to those who could be fine.
I put it in a footnote because I was thinking of responses when dealing with PTSD that kind of happen without even having a conscious thought about it - whether that is having flashbacks or physical things like having startle response when touched. And surely if something bad happens to you it is NORMAL to struggle to deal with it? Whatever the traumatic experience there will be feelings of sadness and guilt and anger and hopelessness. That is just a normal, human response... But if someone forms their entire identity around 'the bad thing that happened to me', how can they get better? If years ago by and they keep asking 'Why did that happen to me?' and feeling awful about it... then really they should be reframing their thinking. The past CANNOT be changed. It just can't. There's no point in feeling miserable about it (past the entirely normal recovery period, that is). THAT is the choice I'm talking about...
And I'll point out that 'the entirely normal recovery period' varies from person to person and what they are dealing with. Someone whose 'gorgeous and amazing' boyfriend left them after being together for 2 years right after university really should not be feeling depressed about it 2 years on. Someone who was a passenger in a car crash where people in the vehicle died will need a lot more time. Someone who earns £100,000 a year, but thinks they really should be earning £1,000,000 and is miserable about that needs to get the fuck over themselves today.
Genuinely had an ‘Oh I seeee!’ moment when reading about the balloon and Buddhism - thanks!
A couple other similar posts that have popped up in my circles:
Sarah Ditum (https://sarahditum.substack.com/p/37-mixed-realities) posted this article by Freddie DeBoer: "Mental illness doesn’t make you special: Why do neurodiversity activists claim suffering is beautiful?" https://unherd.com/2022/04/mental-illness-doesnt-make-you-special/
This article popped up in a private group: "Is Internet Spoonie Culture Keeping People Sick? While the FDA keeps experimental treatments out of reach, the spoonie world makes a diagnosis into an identity." https://reason.com/2023/03/15/is-online-illness-culture-keeping-people-sick/
Someone else posted a link to this Twitter thread. It seems that psychologists are interested in this whole area, too: "Are mental health awareness efforts contributing to the increase in reported mental health problems?" https://twitter.com/lfoulkesy/status/1625069021350486018
I was diagnosed with ADHD at age 54. I was genuinely excited to have a way forward, and told people so. That stopped pretty quick when I realised I was sounding like One Of Those People. I now absolutely stfu about diagnoses and just do my lifestyle and meds.
I started with my GP ‘I know how this probably sounds but I've been online…’ but she did refer me to a psychiatrist. Best outcome is distinguishing those things that are ADHD manageable from the rest of life's mess that I just have to get onto like everyone else.
Would I have wanted a teenage diagnosis? No, it's taken the maturity of knowing who I am to see symptoms, and be carefully mucking around with a developing brain. Diagnosed 10 years earlier would’ve been handy tho.
This post speaks to me in so many ways. I have been so frustrated at being told that supposedly neurodivergent, but actually incredibly functioning people suffer from things that I consider to be the Human Condition.